CGS Forums Community News – Open Public Forum Oh Oh Look Out !! [Imported Post]

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      CGSCGS
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      Oh Oh look out !!
      posted Apr 30, 2014 by dino0000007
      Looks like customs is cracking down….
      http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2014/04/185_counterfeit_guitars_seized_at_bulk_mail_center_in_jersey_city_feds.html
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      SteveTebble said May 15, 2014
      AHA!!!
      God give me patience … but I want it NOW!!
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      TomS. said May 15, 2014

      GS wrote: “this is also interesting, note the date when it came into effect: Trademark Law”

      That really is just too much of a coincidence.
      This is my Chibson. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
      Unread replies start below for topic ‘Oh Oh look out !!’.
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      MichaelWamback said May 15, 2014
      Interesting – of course, it remains to see how vigorously the government will enforce this.
      The two most important things to remember in life: “The only time it’s acceptable to work with amateurs is if you are making porn.” “If you want to work with clowns, join a circus.”
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      FarNiente FarNiente said May 15, 2014
      @Michael

      Good points. Add to that the reality that many of the reviews on Aliexpress are probably fake.

      It’s very alluring to see a seller with a 97.5% positive rating but when 40% (just tossing a number out there) of his reviews are shills, that’s another story.
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      TrickyRicky said May 15, 2014
      May 1st this year, explains quite a bit; never thought it could happen in China. Well spotted GrandSpector.
      [Last edited May 15, 2014]
      “For some, the safest thing is to steer clear of these guitars.”
      TelepathicTrafic said May 02, 2014
      Officials: More Than $1 Million In Fake Guitars Found At Jersey City Mail Center

      Ya 1 millon … what are they pricing them by the ounce lol.
      “I am for drink and the company of questionable women … may your day hold equal favor!”
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      TelepathicTrafic said May 02, 2014
      Shoddy packaging and craftmanship … too funny. How about 200 guitars packed exactly the same in yellow tape. Suspicious much ? Someone in China is out a fuck ton of $$$. Im guessing 30k perhaps … ?
      “I am for drink and the company of questionable women … may your day hold equal favor!”
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      ChibsonsandMore said May 02, 2014
      twault, don’t worry too much yet. What was the last tracking update on your guitar? Leaving Beijing or Qingdao?
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      twault said May 03, 2014
      Dispatch sorting center Beijing on 5/1.
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      ChibsonsandMore said May 03, 2014
      You won’t see updates for at least 2-4 days after it leaves Beijing. It’s on a plane going wherever it is headed (most likely NYC if you’re east coast USA).
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      Paul said May 03, 2014
      AliExpress is going to list on the US stock exchange…this is why the other fake products on the site are drying up (like watches, and clothes). I know the sellers still try by not outright naming the brands but this is the only way the world will accept AliExpress as a serious site. After the big bust I think the guitar site will be cleaned up big time.
      Paul
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      FarNiente FarNiente said May 03, 2014
      Love the comment from the guy on that link who says Epiphones aren’t made in China. Uh yeah, dude they are, unless the huge music store in my town is putting “Made in China” stickers on the Epiphones they’re selling to trick people. 🙂
      [Last edited May 03, 2014]
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      MichaelWamback said May 03, 2014
      Epiphones were made in Korea for a while, but moved to China for the most part a few years back. Clearly, this dude has been living under a rock since Y2K
      The two most important things to remember in life: “The only time it’s acceptable to work with amateurs is if you are making porn.” “If you want to work with clowns, join a circus.”
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      FarNiente FarNiente said May 03, 2014
      Michael, that’s what I thought as well.

      I do recall the Korean Epiphones and some of them were quite good. I played a bunch of the Chinese ones recently and they were not so great.

      Korean guitars can be downright ROCKING tho… my Briane Moore is Korean and it’s a sweet little thing with soul and balls and all-around sonic goodness.

      The Chinese need to up their game and show the rocking world of guitars what they can do! 🙂 Come on guys! Stick it to the Japanese and Koreans and show the world that latent Chinese rock god stuff! lol
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      MichaelWamback said May 03, 2014
      My Goth studio LP is a Korean guitar, and it’s fantastic. I’ve played the same model only made in China, and it didn’t quite feel as good. It was very close, and if I hadn’t played my Korean one I would have been more than happy with the Chinese guitar, but there were subtle differences.
      The two most important things to remember in life: “The only time it’s acceptable to work with amateurs is if you are making porn.” “If you want to work with clowns, join a circus.”
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      GrandSpector said May 03, 2014
      I have a black Korean Epiphone Les Paul Custom, it is one of my favourite guitars. I can definitely confirm that the new Chinese Epiphones do not reach the Korean models.
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      sjcrowe6 said May 05, 2014
      I remember when “Made in Japan” meant you were getting pure crap. Then “Made in Korea” meant you were getting pure crap. Now a-days “Made in China” means you are getting pure crap. Mark my words, ten years from now these Chibsons will be considered works of art and worth BIG BUCKS, if the necks don’t break in half first.
      [Last edited May 05, 2014]
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      MichaelWamback said May 05, 2014
      I agree fully with SJ on this one. Look at how much better the Chinese knockoff guitars have gotten in the last 5 years, and then project that learning curve forward. Eventually, they will be building instruments that are rivals for Fender/PRS/Gibson in quality, but cost about 1/3 of the price.
      The two most important things to remember in life: “The only time it’s acceptable to work with amateurs is if you are making porn.” “If you want to work with clowns, join a circus.”
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      577-Jersey said May 06, 2014
      They should just build there own name brands that look similar to the ESP,PRS,Gibson,ect…using the same if not better quality,,Im sure there will be a huge market for it.Then they wont have to worry about all this copy write BS!!!

      IMO they where stupid for making chibsons and other copies in the first place..
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      JamesZhejiang said May 07, 2014
      Today I finally found out what the “single website” they refer to is. Now I understand why so many sellers are taking their guitars off of the site….
      —-

      James
      ChibsonsandMore said May 07, 2014
      Well they said that it had a business card in the package. Aliexpress wouldn’t put a business card in there, it had to be a specific seller or some sort.
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      filthypit said May 07, 2014
      Yes, NJ is where the container ships offload.
      I know a few ppl w/ surf shops who have surfboards MIC and they go there to get their containers when they come in.

      Interesting note: virtually everyone has said that the teamsters always shake them down (for a handful of boards – per container) before they’ll lift a finger unloading their cargo… guess that’s the cost of doing business these days

      It kind’a sounds like they nabbed a container???
      a place, not a physical attribute ~ my friends call me filth
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      chinaguitarsceptic said May 07, 2014
      Allegedly these guitars were all from one seller to multiple individual buyers but nobody can provide me proof, just a wink a nod and lots of speculation. However finding out that it was not a single buyer is why I finally went with covering the story on my channel today. Previously I had been told a container, which usually means a single shipment from one supplier to one buyer!

      Cathy and GM are both ‘requested’ removal from MW’s sellers list on here and both are tight lipped with me about why. Then I have 2 other sellers say it’s because of the NJ situation. However they didn’t go so far as to confirm that either C-OEM or GM had guitars in the particular shipment. Surely the inclusion of either on this forum list would not mean THAT many orders in one go for either seller???? Who knows? Maybe!

      To me this all smacks of cloak and dagger, back handers and blind eyes being conveniently un-turned once in a while to restore political confidence that Uncle Sam will not tolerate unsolicited thumbs of the nose in his direction or to ‘good old boys’ trading big American brand names. While really the political undercurrent must be focused on the Chinese economic vitality to the USA these days.

      Only time will tell, but 185 guitars is a heck of a big bonfire to make a political point! I intuitively sense a change in the air.
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      filthypit said May 08, 2014
      Well, how many ‘china narcotic/firearm/prostitution/etc sceptic’ website/forums do you know of?

      a place, not a physical attribute ~ my friends call me filth
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      MichaelWamback said May 08, 2014
      Then again, how many of these guitars are landing on the shore each and every day? This could be a big dent, or an insignificant amount of seizure just for show.

      I think it’s also telling that a number of other guitars have passed through NY since with no problem. Granted, they had different logos – but I’m willing to bet the only way they would know for sure would be to open the box. So if the boxes weren’t opened and inspected, then we know they were rubber stamped at entry.
      The two most important things to remember in life: “The only time it’s acceptable to work with amateurs is if you are making porn.” “If you want to work with clowns, join a circus.”
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      David Ledbetter said May 08, 2014
      There’s quite a bit of sellers names being thrown around. Frankly, I think you ought to delete all the sellers info completely from this site and any comments made on your YouTube. You are actually providing the feds a direct connection to sellers. Hate to say it but let people figure it out on their own. Sure, its a nice thing to do. But you may very well be guiding feds straight to the sellers. No wonder they are running. Of course, they are on a website, but there is no direct connection between me and that website that a fed can obtain. Here, not the case. I won’t identify ANY seller on the net. Privately, possibly. Just my two cents. All kinds of opinions out there I.m sure…
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      filthypit said May 08, 2014
      Loose lips sink ships

      Soon everyone will have no other option but buy the crappy guitars Fender, Gibson, et al are selling
      instead of buying our crap directly frm PRC factories…

      Its our Constitutional right to choose!
      FREEDOM OF CHOICE ~ much more than just a DEVO song!
      You can have my crappy counterfeit chinese guitar when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!!!

      ex: Guild/Gretsch quality went right-straight down-the-toilet after Fender bought ’em
      Squier’s are absolute guitar-bage

      [Last edited May 08, 2014]
      a place, not a physical attribute ~ my friends call me filth
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      MichaelWamback said May 08, 2014
      David – not sure I agree with you. I’m sure the Feds are well aware of AliExpress and DHGate. And all we have on our list is a link to the stores that are on there. There is actually no addresses or shipping information to link the specific sellers to the shipment. It’s just the same basic info that they could (and I’m sure have) gleaned themselves off the websites.

      CGS is right – not the first time there has been a “crackdown” so to speak. The sellers will go underground for a month or two, the Feds will have their press opportunity and business will go back to normal. It’s basically just a big game. Not unlike the war on drugs, the Feds just don’t have the resources to police each and every small package coming into the country. So they do a sweep periodically and highly publicize it. The hope is that it will discourage some of the sellers, and some of the buyers.

      It’s not unlike the war of drugs. You see big news stories about the million dollar busts, but we know it’s probably less than 1% of the drugs flowing into the country.
      The two most important things to remember in life: “The only time it’s acceptable to work with amateurs is if you are making porn.” “If you want to work with clowns, join a circus.”
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      SteveTebble said May 08, 2014
      There was a recent post on the Chibson Chinese Guitar Discussion Group on Facebook, from someone who knows one of the employees at the New York/New Jersey facility. He says they see 3-400 of these things go past them in each 10-hour shift – in a place that operates 24/7 except for holidays. So just think what a small percentage of the total that 180 represents.

      He also said that if your guitar is confiscated you are “flagged” for 60 days so don’t order the next one too quickly. And if your guitar is “stopped” “Inspected” and released with a fee, your name is also added to the flagged system and they will look for you over the next 60 days.
      [Last edited May 08, 2014]
      God give me patience … but I want it NOW!!
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      David Ledbetter said May 14, 2014
      While we all agree that buying these guitars is not illegal, selling them is…, well, you know the answer. So let me ask you? Do you post the names and locations where you download your music? Didn’t think so. Because it isn’t illegal to download music but only to upload it. Now I’m not going to start an argument or discussion on that here, but the principle is the same. There’s just no need to be posting information on EXACTLY where and whom is selling. If you dont understand that this whole purchase is a buyer beware, well, then you deserve what you get and really have NO need to complain.
      Like I said, its just my opinion, but I certainly think some tact and discretion should be involved when posting peoples names on the internet. Did anyone ask the sellers if they could post their stores and names? If so, and you got permission, then all I say is then mute. you win. But if you didn’t, maybe folks should think about that. Really ponder it.
      BTW, one of the stores you have listed in your do not buy from list (lowest rating), I have personally had 3 perfect transactions with near perfect product received. So maybe the list isn’t as accurate as you think it is. And why then, is it posted?
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      ChibsonsandMore said May 15, 2014
      The list is there as a complilation of submitted reviews here on the forums. You’re exactly right David, people really only “post” if they’re unhappy about something. It’s why bad feedback is so much more common than good feedback.

      You’ve basically answered your question there though, did you post positive reviews of them or are you keeping the seller a guarded secret for yourself? If it’s the latter, then it explains why those bad reviews were enough to put the seller on the D-List.

      Personally, I’ve had a seller ask me to basically advertise for them through youtube videos. I kindly told them that I wouldn’t help support them in that fashion at all.
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      FarNiente FarNiente said May 15, 2014
      “You’re exactly right David, people really only “post” if they’re unhappy about something.”

      Uh not me dude. I post when I get good product and service. Hell, even when my deal with GM tubed because he sent me a guitar with a bad neck I STILL gave him a positive review because he was more than fair in returning my money for both shipping and the guitar. You can’t make a blanket statement like that. Another point is, with ALL reviews, it’s important to read between the lines. When analyzing reviews for any product or service, you have to use your critical thinking skills. What I try to do is get into the mind of the person who is posting the review. Criticism is best understood when one seeks to understand the spirit of the person doing the criticizing. It’s not hard to do. It just takes practice.
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      MichaelWamback said May 15, 2014
      I actually try and “filter” all of the reviews when I consider the seller. My main concern is to balance the criticism of the sellers against fair and realistic expectations. Things like fretwork, blemishes and so forth are a part of the Chibson charm, and won’t result in a seller dropping down the list. It’s also why I insist on a proper review with photos – particularly if there are issues with the guitars.

      I also look at customer service. If a seller sends a guitar that arrives with major issues, such as a broken neck, then you expect decent communication with the buyer and an honest effort to make things right. It’s also why I’ve started posting links to negative reviews, so that members can read them for themselves and judge accordingly.

      What does drop a seller is when they deliver a guitar with major problems, then refuse to cooperate with the buyer to address the problems.

      As for permission from the seller to post a review – not necessary. Consider “Yelp” as an example. Reviews of products are no more than freedom of speech, and tracking feedback is the same. And we have removed sellers from the list when they have specifically requested it. And nobody on this forum is “outing” anyone – last time I checked, they were openly doing business on the internet for all the world to see.

      No doubt it’s pissed off a seller or two who have really dropped the ball – but I’m also sure it has generated business for sellers who have given good service.

      I’ve repeatedly said that it isn’t a fool-proof system, just the best I can come up with. And yes, it’s simply an effort to compile reviews from members of this forum into one place.

      As for a specific seller delivering quality guitars to you – good for you. You are lucky. It’s the guy who got one with the neck snapped in half that I’m concerned with, and how the seller handled that situation. We all now that this thing can and will happen – regardless of the seller you choose. I’m really concerned with how a particular seller will handle that type of situation, when something tragically goes wrong. Some really take steps above and beyond to make things right – while others will try and just take the money and run. We deserve to know which is which.
      The two most important things to remember in life: “The only time it’s acceptable to work with amateurs is if you are making porn.” “If you want to work with clowns, join a circus.”
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      TrickyRicky said May 15, 2014
      Also, sellers are discussed openly on the alibaba.com (parent of aliexpress.com) forums.
      “For some, the safest thing is to steer clear of these guitars.”
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      GrandSpector said May 15, 2014
      this is also interesting, note the date when it came into effect: Trademark Law
      [Last edited May 15, 2014]
      SteveTebble said May 15, 2014
      AHA!!!
      God give me patience … but I want it NOW!!
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      TomS. said May 15, 2014

      GS wrote: “this is also interesting, note the date when it came into effect: Trademark Law”

      That really is just too much of a coincidence.
      This is my Chibson. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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      MichaelWamback said May 15, 2014
      Interesting – of course, it remains to see how vigorously the government will enforce this.
      The two most important things to remember in life: “The only time it’s acceptable to work with amateurs is if you are making porn.” “If you want to work with clowns, join a circus.”
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      FarNiente FarNiente said May 15, 2014
      @Michael

      Good points. Add to that the reality that many of the reviews on Aliexpress are probably fake.

      It’s very alluring to see a seller with a 97.5% positive rating but when 40% (just tossing a number out there) of his reviews are shills, that’s another story.
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      TrickyRicky said May 15, 2014
      May 1st this year, explains quite a bit; never thought it could happen in China. Well spotted GrandSpector.
      [Last edited May 15, 2014]
      “For some, the safest thing is to steer clear of these guitars.”

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